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Card Rulings
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LizardMan
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Joined: 01 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Siding them is fine. You can also swap out your maindecked DD Assailents if you want. DD Warrior may be weaker but, his effect is much better.

The second and 3rd sentence only applies if you use DD Assailent.

Dimension Prison takes out Prime Material Dragon as well.

New Ruling!!!

Continuous Trap Cards with Ignition Like-Effects

When you activate (flip face-up) a Continuous Trap Card that has an Ignition-like effect, you can choose to activate that effect. The Ignition-like effect does not create an additional Chain Link. You simply state if you will also activate the effect of the Continuous Trap Card at the same time you activate the card itself.



Example 1:
Player A activates “Stamping Destruction” and selects Player B’s face-down “Skull Lair.” Player B activates “Skull Lair” and says that she will also activate its effect, removing 4 monsters in her Graveyard from play to destroy Player A’s “Luster Dragon.”

“Skull Lair” resolves first and destroys “Luster Dragon,” then “Stamping Destruction” destroys “Skull Lair.”



Example 2:
Player A has “Elemental Hero Neos” in Attack Position equipped with “Premature Burial.” Player B has “Malevolent Catastrophe” and “Ultimate Offering” Set in his Spell and Trap Card Zone. Player A attacks with “Elemental Hero Neos.” Player B activates “Malevolent Catastrophe” and chains “Ultimate Offering.” Player B says that he will also activate its effect, and pays 500 Life Points.

“Ultimate Offering” resolves and Player B Normal Summons a monster from his hand. Then “Malevolent Catastrophe” destroys all the Spell and Trap Cards on the field, including “Premature Burial” which also destroys “Elemental Hero Neos.”



Example 3:
Player A activates “Monster Reborn” and selects a monster in Player B’s Graveyard. Player B can activate “Royal Oppression” and also activate its effect to negate “Monster Reborn.”

Also, if a monster is special summoned with its own effect, like "cyber dragon", you can activate "royal oppression" and also activate its effect to negate the special summon.
















So basically, you can flip oppression in response to any special summon and activate its effect, and negate the special summon.


I am a new judge so I would love to help you guys with rulings.
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LizardMan
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Joined: 01 Jul 2007
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Location: Dead in a ditch.

PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have great news guys.

Vince was wrong with his Heart Of The Underdog ruling.

Heart Of The Underdog is still incredible.


During your Draw Phase, if the card you draw is a Normal Monster Card, you can draw 1 more card by showing the card to your opponent.


Sometimes a Trigger Effect says that “when” a condition happens, you “can” activate its effect. In this case, you are only allowed to activate the effect when the condition being met was the last thing to happen in the game (activating cards & effects that haven’t resolved yet doesn’t count).

If the triggering condition happened for an optional Trigger Effect, but something else has happened after that, then you have “missed the timing” and you cannot activate it. For example, this can happen if the optional Trigger Effect monster was Tributed for a Tribute Summon or to activate a card effect, or if the triggering condition happened in a chain and wasn’t Chain Link 1, or if another card effect or game effect has happened since then. The triggering condition has to be the very last thing that happened in order for a “when… you can” optional Trigger Effect to activate.

If the triggering condition for an optional Trigger Effect happens as Chain Link 2 or higher, it will still “miss the timing”, even if all of the effects lower on the chain resolve with no effect (disappear), or are negated by a Continuous Effect.


Missing the Timing: Suppose you have 3 copies of “Heart of the Underdog” on the field, and draw a Normal Monster Card during your Draw Phase. All 3 copies of “Heart of the Underdog” immediately activate their effects, and because they activate simultaneously, they form a chain with Chain Links 1, 2, and 3. If you draw a Normal Monster card for Chain Link 3 or Chain Link 2, your copies of “Heart of the Underdog” do not activate again. This is because they are “when… you can” optional Trigger Effects, and you “miss the timing” because you drew the Normal Monster Card during a chain and not as Chain Link 1. However, if you draw a Normal Monster Card for Chain Link 1, all 3 copies of “Heart of the Underdog” will activate their effects again.


This is my proof. Read all this throughly and that should explain it to you.

If you need any more explaining, I would be glad to give it to you.

I was doing exactly what these rulings told me the entire time. I always started the loop again if I drew a Vannila during chain link one. I also want to run my Vannila's again now.

Basically if you have multiple Heart Of The Underdogs on the field, They all activate if you draw a Vannila card during chain link one of Heart Of The Underdog, your draw phase, Reload, Jar Of Greed, Hand Collapse, etc. You draw 1 card for each chain link. Then on chain link one if you draw a vannila you can show it to your opponent to activate the multiple Heart Of The Underdogs again. When they say missing the timing, they mean that when chain links 3 and 2 activate and lets say you draw a vannila you do not draw for those chain links again since all of the chain links did not resolve yet and you miss the timing. You draw 1 card for each chain link. Then on chain link one if you draw a vannila you can show it to your opponent to activate the multiple Heart Of The Underdogs again and draw 1 for each of those chain links. It basically keeps on going like that until you do not draw a vannila for chain link one.










Also Ryan Murphy from metagame.com said I am right. His aim is RoninTalkin. :)










Here is an additional ruling.

When you show a Normal Monster Card to your opponent to activate “Heart of the Underdog”, your opponent can chain “Drop Off”. You will have to discard that Normal Monster Card, but “Heart of the Underdog” still resolves its effect.
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unrulysaiyajin
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:10 pm    Post subject: omg Reply with quote

Charlie. That is the exact ruling that Vince gave you. Remember correctly before you say he was wrong. He was the one that informed you that you could only activate the 3 again if the normal drawn was from the card on Chain link 1. You were activating them continuously when you drew on other links. Hence Vince corrected you. Kthx.
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LizardMan
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Joined: 01 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:03 pm    Post subject: He showed me the wrong way with his own hands literally... Reply with quote

No I did not. I was doing it correctly. I am not that stupid to do something like that.

I know what I was doing. I knew the ruling. I can remember what I was doing. So yeah he did not correct me. Please do not get so cocky with your kthx. Also if your going to get mean in your next post refrain from doing so.

Vince basically said if 2-3 heart of the underdog is on the field only 1 of them activates.

PS: Your acting like the FBI if you have to reply and say something mean whenever I post something your don't like.

Please be nice.
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unrulysaiyajin
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:35 am    Post subject: killers Reply with quote

No he didn't Charlie. Vince gave you the correct ruling. The same one you posted now.

You tell me not to post something mean whenever you post. I do it when you post something dumb, something wrong, something that I feel should be corrected before people actually believe what you say.

And if you want to snap back at me. Post right after calling me a liar. I will post back. The first time will be fairly nice. If you persist though it probably will get progressively meaner out of frustration.

And I was intentionally getting cocky with my "kthx". Which I only did 'cause I knew I was right.
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LizardMan
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Joined: 01 Jul 2007
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Location: Dead in a ditch.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know for a fact I was doing it correctly. It works the way I did it in the video games too. I was following the rulings. I saw the rulings before Vince showed me. I never did it the way you described it. Only a noob would do it that way, and I am no noob.

Trust me, he told me the first time I draw all 3 activate, he then said after all 3 resolved only 1 of them activates from now on. which means only one heart of the underdog activates not 3. That is incorrect information.

Also, I know I was doing it correctly. Erik called a judge on me since he probably did not understand the ruling when I was doing everything right. Vince might have explained it correctly since he did not see the whole thing but, I could have misinterpreted what he said.

I am 100% sure I was doing it correctly

I do not post dumb stuff/wrong stuff. I only would post something like this if I know I was correct. If I knew I was wrong I wouldn't have posted this.


Last edited by LizardMan on Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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Razjah
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Joined: 30 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay children behave.

Now, Chester is right. Charlie when you had 3 Heart of the Underdog's out you would draw, Normal monster->all 3 go off-> not a normal from first draw-> second draw is a normal-> activate 3 more draws, now have 4-> no, no yes-> 3 more.

You were using the card wrong. Before you would catch timings that can't even trigger. Don't get in a bad mood because of what Chester said, he wasn't mean and you're freaking out.

Now, Chester is right, you WERE using the card wrong. That's all, anything more of this and I will delete the post.
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LizardMan
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I will stop. I know for a fact I wasn't wrong though.

You should delete all these posts so I do not have to be reminded of this unpleasent jibber jabber.
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unrulysaiyajin
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:40 am    Post subject: rofl Reply with quote

Don't say you're gonna stop when you're just trying to get the last word in and say you weren't wrong. Even though 2 people are telling you what you were doing. w/e.
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vinny1986
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, after doing some research, Charlie WAS RIGHT!!!!!

he was just explaining it funny.

Example:

(hotus = heart of the underdogs)

There are three hotus face up on charlie's side of the field. He draws for the turn, and its a normal monster. All three hotus activate at the same time, becoming Chain 1, 2, and 3. resolve backwards.

Chain 3 - draws a trap
chain 2 - draws normal monster
Chain 1 - draws spell card

Chain 3 and 2 miss the timing because they were not the last to resolve. However, if Charlie draws a normal monster on chain link 1, he can show THAT card to his opponent and draw three more times. This loop can continue if the third card he draws is a normal monster. It doesn't matter what he draws on chain 2 and 3, as long as he hits a normal monster on chain 1, he continues drawing.

Here is where I got the information:


http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=536860&highlight=underdog

Sorry about the confusion and the incorrect ruling, Charlie.
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LizardMan
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Vince.

Its alright about the ruling, everyone makes mistakes.
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Razjah
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But he used to draw a card from links 2 or 3 and then add another 3 draws to his draw, creating a super loop that should never exist.

Charlie continue being condescending and your posts will vanish, final warning. (Chester and I are both right here)
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LizardMan
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No I did not.

I was the one using the card correctly. Vince also saw me do it correctly but didn't explain it correctly like he said.

Why can't we just drop this. Vince even confirmed I was correct. I saw the ruling and used it in the game long before the Geek o Rama and Vince's call.

Ryan Murphy even said I am correct. He is a god at this game.

I would be even willing to take a lie detector test since I know for a fact I am not a liar.

Like I said. I would not post unless I knew I was right.

I don't even know why everyone is against me.

I wouldn't have been so dumb to use the card so wrong anyway. I was doing everything the way its supposed to.

You can even ask Vince.

I never made some super loop like that.
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HARV35TER
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man...rough crowd. LOL.

I wasn't there to witness this mess, but the Ruling for Heart of the Underdog is pretty straight forward, and relatively easy to understand. If that is the way that Charlie in fact thought it would work (and obviously he was right in thinking it worked that way, for Vince did say
Quote:
Sorry about the confusion and the incorrect ruling, Charlie.
), then props to Charlie for sticking to his guns and providing proof.


A couple things...

Charlie, you have a crappy way of explaining things, and of trying to prove a point...
Quote:

I have great news guys.

Vince was wrong with his Heart Of The Underdog ruling.
...among other things. You get more with honey, then you do with vinegar Charlie. The way you word something, or say something, can make a world of difference in the way people respond to you, and act towards you in general. You really should start working on that once and for all.

Chester, Vince admitted his ruling was wrong. I understand you getting frustrated with the way Charlie conducted himself regarding this situation, but, per Vince's apology, it appears Charlie was right, and you were wrong.

Eric, read the above. LOL. Also, I know how taxing Charlie is with you, but I don't see any need for you to threaten to delete his posts. Nothing he said was that bad. I don't see how he was coming across as condescending, he was simply sticking to his guns.

More often than not, a person who is repeatedly insistent that they are right about something (even Charlie, who rgardless of his "ways" is no slouch to the game) and that can provide proof, or says they can provide proof...well, that would be about the point that I would say to myself "crap, maybe he is right...I should check into this a little further (whether by rulings, or by waiting for Vince to reply, etc...).

Vince, props to you for the way you responded to Charlie and the situation at hand. You admitted Charlie was correct, provided proof, and apologized to boot...which amounts to you handling everything properly, and professionally.


People need to get off of their hate tanks. We all put our socks on one at a time.
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LizardMan
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HARV35TER wrote:
Man...rough crowd. LOL.

I wasn't there to witness this mess, but the Ruling for Heart of the Underdog is pretty straight forward, and relatively easy to understand. If that is the way that Charlie in fact thought it would work (and obviously he was right in thinking it worked that way, for Vince did say
Quote:
Sorry about the confusion and the incorrect ruling, Charlie.
), then props to Charlie for sticking to his guns and providing proof.


A couple things...

Charlie, you have a crappy way of explaining things, and of trying to prove a point...
Quote:

I have great news guys.

Vince was wrong with his Heart Of The Underdog ruling.
...among other things. You get more with honey, then you do with vinegar Charlie. The way you word something, or say something, can make a world of difference in the way people respond to you, and act towards you in general. You really should start working on that once and for all.

Chester, Vince admitted his ruling was wrong. I understand you getting frustrated with the way Charlie conducted himself regarding this situation, but, per Vince's apology, it appears Charlie was right, and you were wrong.

Eric, read the above. LOL. Also, I know how taxing Charlie is with you, but I don't see any need for you to threaten to delete his posts. Nothing he said was that bad. I don't see how he was coming across as condescending, he was simply sticking to his guns.

More often than not, a person who is repeatedly insistent that they are right about something (even Charlie, who rgardless of his "ways" is no slouch to the game) and that can provide proof, or says they can provide proof...well, that would be about the point that I would say to myself "crap, maybe he is right...I should check into this a little further (whether by rulings, or by waiting for Vince to reply, etc...).

Vince, props to you for the way you responded to Charlie and the situation at hand. You admitted Charlie was correct, provided proof, and apologized to boot...which amounts to you handling everything properly, and professionally.


People need to get off of their hate tanks. We all put our socks on one at a time.


Thanks Harv. Also I am sorry for what happened. I am also sorry for using the wrong set of words and the way I explained things. I will try to work on my social skills better.

Also I would like to thank Vince for being honest. I would also like to thank Harv for responding nicely, He got to the point without making me feel attacked, and he showed whats bad in people and whats good in people too.

I will try my hardest to avoid a prediciment like this from now on.

I shouldn't have gotten all shooken up. Especially since I am a judge now. I have to stay cool/calm in all situations.
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